F**k You. Pay Me. The Best Way to Collect Debt In Pennsylvania.

1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,240
Please rise. Court is now in session.

2
00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:03,360
All rise.

3
00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:04,480
All rise.

4
00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:12,320
I strenuously object. A legal podcast brought to you by the Pittsburgh law from a Flaherty Fardo

5
00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:13,520
is now in session.

6
00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:18,400
All those seeking information about the law and legal matters affecting the people of Pittsburgh

7
00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:23,440
and the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, half-baked opinions and a dose of self-indulgence

8
00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:25,520
are invited to attend and participate.

9
00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:29,200
I want the truth! You can't handle the truth!

10
00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:30,320
I object, your honor.

11
00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:31,520
Your honor, I object.

12
00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:32,160
You would!

13
00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:38,080
Listen, we don't know you. We don't know who you are. We don't know what you do.

14
00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:41,280
So please do not rely on anything we say as legal advice.

15
00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:45,280
I'm Noah Fardo, presiding. My wingman, attorney Bill Rugell.

16
00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:47,600
And all we're trying to do is bring a little irreverence.

17
00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:52,160
That's just what this stubby company needs! A little irreverence!

18
00:00:52,160 --> 00:00:54,000
Well, let's start the insanity.

19
00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:55,200
Call the first witness.

20
00:00:55,200 --> 00:01:01,760
Today on I Stringuously Object, I am strenuously objecting to not getting paid when people owe

21
00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:03,760
me money. You agree?

22
00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:07,440
That is a fine, fine subject of objection.

23
00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:09,040
So today...

24
00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:10,240
That is sustained.

25
00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:13,120
Sustained. What we're going to do today is we're going to show me the money.

26
00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:14,640
Show me the money.

27
00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:16,640
Show me the money!

28
00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:22,000
Because we're going to teach people that when you're owed money, there are ways to collect.

29
00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:23,120
Business bad.

30
00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:26,480
F*** you, pay me. Oh, you had a fire? F*** you, pay me.

31
00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:29,440
Place got hit by lightning, huh? F*** you, pay me.

32
00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:34,560
In my experience, about half the people who are owed money collect and about half don't.

33
00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:35,520
Your experience?

34
00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:41,360
Yeah, I've never tried to calculate it, but you know, everything's 50-50, right?

35
00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:42,560
Either it is or it isn't.

36
00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:49,120
And I don't know. What I do know is when I first started with you, goodness, what was that?

37
00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:51,120
16 years ago now?

38
00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:55,680
One of the ways you had described a thing that set us apart as a practice is, you know,

39
00:01:55,680 --> 00:02:01,360
that there tend to be people who handle getting you the judgment and there tend to be people who

40
00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:03,760
handle collecting money after a judgment.

41
00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:11,600
But a lot of attorneys don't do both and certainly aren't, you know, sufficiently experienced in both.

42
00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:17,520
And we get a lot of cases from other attorneys, other law firms who've obtained a judgment,

43
00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:23,120
but haven't turned that judgment into money. And they reach out to us to go try to collect it for them.

44
00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:25,120
Yep, bringing home the bacon.

45
00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:27,120
Try it up in a pan.

46
00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:32,960
So what we're going to teach people today is when you're owed money, whether somebody owes you or

47
00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:38,000
whether you want a lawsuit and need to collect, your company's owed money, your business is owed

48
00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:43,760
money, what do you need to do? And, you know, this started, like you said, many years ago.

49
00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:49,600
And I was real into the internet then and wrote an article on the five best steps on how to collect

50
00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:54,000
debt in Pennsylvania. You know, what are the five best things you need to do to collect money that's

51
00:02:54,000 --> 00:03:00,880
owed? And this article, I don't want to say it went viral, but it went 1,000, 1,500 views a month

52
00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:05,760
for over a decade. So over 100,000, 150,000 people have read this article.

53
00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:10,240
And we get calls, two, three calls a week still every week from this old article.

54
00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:14,240
So I want to expand on that and even get into some of the finer points today.

55
00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:16,240
Hey, give the people what they want.

56
00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:26,240
Yeah. So, you know, a couple of things about debt collection cases in general that are really good,

57
00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:32,240
just preliminary advice. You can never prejudice a debt collection case. Those people who think

58
00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:36,240
they're going to get paid sometimes don't. The people who don't think they're going to get paid

59
00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:42,240
get paid. Right. And at the end of this, because producer Mike said we need a hook, I will give

60
00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:49,200
the best single advice ever for collecting debt, something that people don't do that will collect

61
00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:54,240
more money and collected what $100,000 for us last month, right. A trick of the trade.

62
00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:56,240
That's what I call a hook.

63
00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:02,240
Thanks, Mike. So never prejudice a debt collection case. It's not a good thing.

64
00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:08,240
Thanks, Mike. So never prejudice a debt collection case and be nice.

65
00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:14,240
Hold on. What do you mean never prejudice a debt collection case? Those words are weird to me.

66
00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:20,240
Well, never prejudice meaning don't think you're going to get paid or not going to get paid.

67
00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:26,240
You simply don't know if you're going to get paid until you do what is necessary. That makes sense?

68
00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:28,240
It does make sense.

69
00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:36,240
So yeah, it's worth noting you cannot judge these things by the appearances of who seems to have money

70
00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:42,240
or who seems not to have money because that is not necessarily a useful guide as to whether or not a debt

71
00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:48,240
is collectible. People with lots of money may have that money well hidden or put in places where you can't collect it.

72
00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:54,240
People who don't necessarily seem to have a lot of money may end up coming into money later or having

73
00:04:54,240 --> 00:05:04,240
assets that you wouldn't think about or notice offhand but are collectible assets. So generally, if the judgment was worth getting,

74
00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:12,240
it's at least worth poking around at the possibilities of collecting on it. Don't just assume. It is true that you can't get blood from a stone,

75
00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:15,240
but you may not always know who's a stone and who's not.

76
00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:26,240
That's right. That's right. And I mean, if you want to collect debt, the key is understanding how you apply pressure.

77
00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:38,240
Right. And why I phrased this episode, hey, you pay me, is because those tricks of the trade and that attitude and that mentality

78
00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:42,240
and going after that money owed for your client, you know, it's a big difference on who you hire.

79
00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:48,240
And that's just the reality of it. You agree? I do. Now, early on, when I tell clients, we get a lot of consults.

80
00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:58,240
Hey, is this collectible? Is this not collectible? Hold on. We can't prejudice it. I don't know. I can tell you there's things we can do to help you to find out.

81
00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:09,240
But be nice. Be nice. Let the person want to work with you and pay you. I always love when debtors are the people that owe the money,

82
00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:16,240
whether it's a business or an individual, whether they want to make a payment plan. Sure, we'll accept your money.

83
00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:22,240
Because if they default on that payment plan, now they're funding the actual lawsuit against themselves.

84
00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:29,240
Right. Why make the client pay their own money to go collect this debt? Let the debtor pay the legal funds. You agree?

85
00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:39,240
Well, sure. We get this situation a lot where, you know, you enter into a payment plan and everybody knows that at some point,

86
00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:43,240
whether it's two months, four months, a year from now, this debtor is going to default.

87
00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:48,240
They aren't going to pay the entire payment plan for the entire time period.

88
00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:56,240
But, you know, you got some money in the interim that you can then use to fund your additional efforts to collect beyond that.

89
00:06:56,240 --> 00:07:02,240
You know, what's the side phone line? People don't turn down money. It's what separates us from the animals.

90
00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:09,240
If someone's offering to pay you, say yes and worry about the fact that they'll default again later when that happens.

91
00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:14,240
I'd rather them default three months from now, but pay me $1,500 between now and then.

92
00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:18,240
Now, when they don't pay you, that's where I want to help people.

93
00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:26,240
So let's say you're owed money. And boy, I'll tell you what, it's like property tax appeals, which maybe this audience isn't listening to.

94
00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:31,240
But the toll tax appeal system is very emotional for the homeowners. You're raising their taxes, right?

95
00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:36,240
The same thing is true when people call me and they're owed money and they're owed money or their business is owed money.

96
00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:43,240
I mean, the rage that this person, I did the work, they owe me $35,000 and they're not going to pay me.

97
00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:46,240
I mean, people want to resort to physical violence.

98
00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:50,240
Oh, and it's even worse in the cases where you're talking about someone who already has a judgment.

99
00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:58,240
They've gone to court. They've convinced the court that they're owed this money and they still haven't got it and they don't know what to do.

100
00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:02,240
The court says this guy owes me 25 grand and I have nothing.

101
00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:07,240
And you hit the nail on the head. I mean, understanding the nuts and bolts.

102
00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:11,240
When somebody says, hey, I'm owed money or this person owes me money.

103
00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:16,240
No, they don't legally owe you the money until you have what's called a judgment.

104
00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:19,240
And you hit it, right? You said, how do I enforce the judgment?

105
00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:24,240
But before you even have that legal determination that yes, you know what?

106
00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:27,240
Legally, you are owed money. You have a judgment. You have to get a judgment.

107
00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:32,240
Help me explain how people understand what a judgment is first.

108
00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:37,240
Sure. And there are different ways to go about getting a judgment.

109
00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:45,240
There are magistrate hearings or magistrate courts. There are the courts of common pleas in each of the various counties.

110
00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:47,240
You know, federal courts end up with judgments, too.

111
00:08:47,240 --> 00:09:00,240
But the basic definition here is a judgment is a kind of final finding of a court that establishes the party's rights and specifically in the case of civil judgments, a right to payment.

112
00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:10,240
Prior to that point, you can have all the invoices in the world and you can have a written contract and a promissory note.

113
00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:13,240
And those things have value in and of themselves. Right. You can negotiate a note.

114
00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:19,240
But what you don't have is a court ruling upon the validity of your note or your invoices.

115
00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:23,240
You can't collect on that as such. You have to do is take that thing, go to court.

116
00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:31,240
And at the end of a trial or a default judgment, if the other side doesn't show up, there are ways different ways procedurally of getting there.

117
00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:39,240
But judgment signals finality. The court has now made a final ruling that you are owed this money.

118
00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:45,240
And once you've got that judgment in hand, now you can go and try to collect. I'm not going to bother to.

119
00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:48,240
There are ways after a judgment to go back and attack a judgment.

120
00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:54,240
Nothing is really final. It's not over till it's over.

121
00:09:54,240 --> 00:10:02,240
But as kind of a bright line in your head, you go to trial, you win the trial, you get a verdict or whatever.

122
00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:08,240
That thing has to be converted and turned into a judgment. And then once you've got that judgment, now you can try to go get paid.

123
00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:14,240
Yeah. And let me follow up on that real quick. So I have a contract where you don't have a judgment.

124
00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:19,240
I went to the magistrates and I got an award. Well, that's not a judgment.

125
00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:27,240
I went to a jury trial and the jury, the jury and the judge, they issued a verdict and the verdict said this person owes me money.

126
00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:36,240
OK, you still don't have a judgment. The judgment is a piece of paper that says to the court records, please enter judgment in my amount.

127
00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:45,240
And once that specific recipe for judgment, which is what it is called, is filed with the courts, then you have a judgment.

128
00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:55,240
All right. So step one of this entire process is you have to get the judgment and a judgment is a you can view it on a public docket.

129
00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:58,240
Where do you where do you get the judgment?

130
00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:07,240
Well, you know, when you think so, you win your case and you're in a specific county and there's 67 counties in Pennsylvania.

131
00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:17,240
A secret tip is that you need to record the judgment in every single county in which the defendant owns property because that acts as a lien.

132
00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:22,240
You can't just if the defendant owns property in Westmoreland County and you have a judgment in Allegheny County.

133
00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:28,240
Guess what? Your judgment in Allegheny County is not acting as a lien against the property of the defendant.

134
00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:35,240
Let me make a slightly technical objection. This is a non strenuous objection.

135
00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:39,240
It is just an objection to correct the record here.

136
00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:44,240
You should enter judgment in the county where the proceedings happened first. Right.

137
00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:50,240
If I've got a verdict in Allegheny County or a magistrate award from a magistrate in Allegheny County,

138
00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:56,240
eventually you want to put that judgment into other counties. You can go enforce that judgment in other states.

139
00:11:56,240 --> 00:12:01,240
But the first thing you need to do is enter that judgment in that county, in that jurisdiction.

140
00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:14,240
Don't try to domesticate a judgment in Lackawanna County or in some county in Ohio when all you've got is a magistrate award and not a judgment in Allegheny County first.

141
00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:19,240
And that works the other way. Right. If if you've obtained a judgment in another state,

142
00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:26,240
we often proceed against assets that are located here in some particular county in Pennsylvania.

143
00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:31,240
But what we have to do is we have to get a copy of that judgment from the other state first and then bring it here.

144
00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:36,240
You don't want to have to relitigate the substance of the case county by county or in another place.

145
00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:41,240
You want to finalize that judgment in the place where the litigation already happened.

146
00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:50,240
And then once you've got that full faith and credit requires that other states and that other counties respect the decision of that court and enforce it.

147
00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:55,240
I agree. So step one, your owed money, you have to get obtained the judgment.

148
00:12:55,240 --> 00:13:00,240
You're filing the judgment in the county where the proceedings happen. And that's a good point, Bill. Thank you.

149
00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:05,240
Now we're going to transfer the judgment to where any other counties where the defendant may own property.

150
00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:09,240
But let's say you get the judgment and the defendant now is saying, fuck me, fuck you.

151
00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:13,240
I'm not paying you. Come and get me. Right.

152
00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:16,240
What's the first thing you're going to tell a client? What do I do? I got a judgment.

153
00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:23,240
I got a judgment for one hundred thousand dollars. The guy won't pay me. Owns two new cars, a boat. What can I do?

154
00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:34,240
Well, so one filing the judgment itself does something to protect you already, which is it establishes a lien against any real property, not personal property.

155
00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:38,240
Real property just means real estate, right? Land, houses.

156
00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:47,240
It's not a lien against anything else. But if I own land in that state, even if you never do anything else by filing a judgment, I've got a lien.

157
00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:51,240
I'm somewhere of record with some interest in this property.

158
00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:56,240
But if you want to do anything else and we'll talk about what some of those other steps are to go after assets,

159
00:13:56,240 --> 00:14:03,240
then the next thing you have to do procedurally after filing the judgment itself is you have to seek a writ of execution,

160
00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:14,240
which is basically another document. It kind of is a document issued and served that signifies that we've moved to the next step of the proceedings, right?

161
00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:25,240
Where we now, though it's under the same kind of number, we are now in a position where we are actively litigating an execution proceeding on this judgment.

162
00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:30,240
So you're going to need you need a writ of execution before you can do any of the next step for about to talk about.

163
00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:39,240
Yeah, how are we going to collect on the judgment here? But I think there's actually a decision for people to make creditors or plaintiffs or the people that are owed the money.

164
00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:46,240
So once they get the judgment, you have a decision that we can either immediately act and file this writ of execution,

165
00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:50,240
which is going to authorize the sheriff to go sell stuff so we can get paid.

166
00:14:50,240 --> 00:15:00,240
Or you can do what's called discovery in aid of execution, where the law allows you to send written questions to a debtor.

167
00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:07,240
The law allows you to take depositions. Bill?

168
00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:16,240
Well, yeah, I just want to note as far as the order of operations here, you actually need the writ of execution before you do discovery in aid of execution.

169
00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:23,240
I strenuously object. I strenuously object that you need a writ of execution before you can do discovery.

170
00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:32,240
If I have a judgment against you and I don't issue a writ of execution, it is my legal opinion that I can take your deposition in aid of execution without issuing a writ.

171
00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:40,240
There's no execution to be in aid of at that point. No, my my understanding here and look, people may show up anyway.

172
00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:50,240
But if I am defending someone who's trying not to pay this debt and you start serving discovery on me without a writ of execution in place first,

173
00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:57,240
I may decide to play nice. But if I really want to be a jerk, I technically don't think I have to answer until a writ of execution is issued.

174
00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:03,240
So you think you can file an objection and say I'm not answering this discovery until the actual writ of execution? I disagree.

175
00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:07,240
You want to make that argument in court? I think you lose. But let's move on.

176
00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:16,240
Let's assume you may or may not, depending on who you listen to, Yale, Bill or myself, issue the writ of execution.

177
00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:21,240
There is a discovery process that can be done. And that discovery process can ask debtors.

178
00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:28,240
And we've done it for all of your banking information for the last three years, your tax returns for the last three years.

179
00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:34,240
Do you own any firearms? What jewelry do you own? How about your investment accounts? I mean, you can get pretty deep.

180
00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:40,240
It's a forensic exam of the defendant's wealth and assets. And there's two ways to do it.

181
00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:49,240
Written and then through an actual requirement that they attend their deposition, which you can also film and require them to bring documents.

182
00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:55,240
Your thoughts on the discovery process? The discovery process, I mean, it works here and there. It does.

183
00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:59,240
And it's a useful way to gain information. You got to figure out where the assets are.

184
00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:07,240
And it's the same type of discovery process that you'll have earlier in litigation. Right. If I'm in a car accident, I get to do a discovery.

185
00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:13,240
I can do a deposition of the other person involved in the accident and ask them, OK, where were you coming from that day?

186
00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:19,240
Where were you going to that day? What did you see as you approach the intersection? It's the same process.

187
00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:25,240
It's just now the matter at issue is where are your assets? How are you making your money? How are you spending your money?

188
00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:30,240
Where do you bank? How are you paying your bills? What's in what's in your attic? What's in your garage?

189
00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:36,240
The tough thing about discovery and aid of execution.

190
00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:48,240
There is no place among all the depositions we do where I am convinced that people just lie to us more than in discovery and aid of execution.

191
00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:54,240
People just show up in there and lie through their teeth about where their money is and what they do.

192
00:17:54,240 --> 00:18:07,240
Yeah. If you if you if you think people lie in real life and you think, well, of course, they lie in litigation, people would be would be overwhelmed at the amount of times that witnesses just lie without repercussions in the legal system.

193
00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:15,240
I mean, it's pretty bad. Here's a practice tip. And here's why I like noticing a deposition and aid of execution.

194
00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:24,240
You owe me money. I'm going to notice your deposition. I'm going to require you to bring your tax returns, your bank statements and every asset you've ever owned in the last five years or any creditors you have.

195
00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:31,240
Most of those debtors, they don't want to they don't want to deal with this. You may already have a default judgment. They're not paying you.

196
00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:37,240
They're not going to be involved in the lawsuit. And then they don't show. So they just don't show up. They say, I'm not showing up.

197
00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:45,240
What I like when that happens is that I file a motion to compel when I required him to attend and the judge says, OK, they didn't show they have to show up in 30 days.

198
00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:51,240
They don't show again. Then I go back to the court and I say, Judge, they haven't showed twice now. I need sanctions. I need five hundred dollars.

199
00:18:51,240 --> 00:19:03,240
Judge says, OK, they still don't show. And he requires them to show in seven days. At that point, though, what I've done and it's been very effective and I look at it as a strategy of being clever and how to collect money.

200
00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:17,240
As I say, you know what, Judge, this person is so noncompliant that I need an order issuing contempt and I want you to issue the sheriff of Allegheny County to go arrest them and bring them to my office with all of their papers.

201
00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:23,240
And that usually scares the shit out of them. Right. Because now it's not debtors prison, but you didn't pay.

202
00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:32,240
You're not answering. I'm going to take you to jail. Right. And I was going to say that there isn't debtors prison. Right. We don't we don't have that system anymore.

203
00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:42,240
But. You know, there are repercussions for just consistently refusing to cooperate with the courts that are the law of the land.

204
00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:49,240
You eventually you have to show up. You have to actually honestly answer the questions presented to you.

205
00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:56,240
And, you know, there's a lot of debtors out there who just refuse to cooperate.

206
00:19:56,240 --> 00:20:09,240
You know, and it's I don't know if it's psychological denial. Right. If I don't go there and deal with it, then this debt isn't real. Well, eventually you're going to get you're going to get pulled over for for rolling through a stop sign.

207
00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:25,240
And they're going to realize that there's a warrant out there for you, a bench warrant that orders the police to bring you before the judge so that your deposition can get scheduled so that you can the person who is owed money can actually find out the necessary information.

208
00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:33,240
You know, free free advice to the debtors out there. Show up for your depositions.

209
00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:42,240
You know, show up and be honest. But, you know, no showing will eventually lead to some some pretty nasty consequences.

210
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:55,240
So I got a great deposition in aid of execution story. This guy this guy owes money and I take his deposition. This is years ago in our office guy's huge mean looking once. No one's to beat the shit out of me.

211
00:20:55,240 --> 00:21:07,240
And I mean, it's kind of scary. And he's lying through his no, no, no, no doesn't have anything doesn't have anything. I'm like, well, how did you know vehicles? I was like, what do you drive? I don't. I was like, well, how did you get here today?

212
00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:22,240
And I forget what he said. But the deposition wraps up and it's very contentious. I mean, I'm fortunately with covid we do a lot of these zoom now, which I think is better. But I decided I'm going to follow him. I want to see how he got to our office in Shadyside.

213
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:27,240
So he walks outside the office and I'm like 20 yards behind this guy and this guy's looking at me.

214
00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:41,240
And he eventually confronted me about halfway down the block at Shadyside and he's like, what are you doing? What are you doing? I'm just taking a walk. I'm just taking a walk. I followed him for 15 or 20 minutes. Finally, he goes to his car. It was obvious. He wasn't going to his car.

215
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:53,240
I write. I don't think I even had a cell phone at the time. I write down his license plate and eventually I think we did get paid on that. I don't know if it was from the car itself, which is kind of psychotic to do. Right.

216
00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:58,240
I'm not advising lawyers to do that, but it shows you that you need to be aggressive.

217
00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:13,240
You need to be clever. You need to be street smart. When we say, fuck you, pay me. Goodfellas is all about those guys were street smart because they wanted to collect the money. Fair. Fair. It's quite the risk you took. Right. You don't know this guy.

218
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:27,240
You know, you followed him. Who knows? He gets to his car and he comes out with a firearm. Well, that was before everybody shot everybody. I think, you know, these days everybody just shoots everybody and there's a more of acceptance of rage, so to speak.

219
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:36,240
All right. We got the judgment. We may or may not do some discovery and aid of execution. Right. Now you've got to issue the writ of execution. Let's say you find out the guy has assets.

220
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:51,240
How are we going to get them? I always say the writ of execution is your key. That is the key. The magic pass, the golden ticket that you give to the sheriff and it allows them to go set a sheriff sale because the sheriff sale is a two step process.

221
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:59,240
They visit the defendant's assets. They put them on a piece of paper. They list them on the levy sheet and they set a sale date.

222
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:09,240
And we've gone through this and we've had some good stories. You want to have some stories, you know, back in the day with National Recovery Corporation, Fred Fershing. Right. I'm giving a shout out to Fred Fershing. What a great guy.

223
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:13,240
He ran a collection agency we used to do a sheriff sales.

224
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:21,240
You really haven't practiced law until you've attended a sheriff sale and you're taking people's assets out of the restaurants.

225
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:25,240
Let me let me pause you here for a second. Sure.

226
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:35,240
Sheriff sale is kind of a term of art here that people have probably heard but usually in a different context. Right. There's two kinds of sheriff sales. Can you tell us about that?

227
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:43,240
Well, are you talking about a sheriff sale of personal assets versus a sheriff sale of real property? Well, yeah, exactly. Right.

228
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:51,240
People have heard of sheriff sales and what they're thinking of is that place where you go to buy distressed properties. That's not the kind of sheriff sale you're talking about right now.

229
00:23:51,240 --> 00:24:06,240
Well, that's good. That's good, Bill. All right. So, yeah, there are two different kinds of sheriff sales. You know, once a month in most counties in Pennsylvania, they sell real estate that has judgments against them. That can be a house with land or just land and people bid on it and it's a separate sheriff sale.

230
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:20,240
But what I'm talking about is you can also do a writ of execution against personal assets and bank accounts, which is really the best, I think, fastest way to get paid. If you have banking information, you can seize that bank account by sending a writ of execution to the bank.

231
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:37,240
If they have a nice car, you can send a sheriff by giving them the key, the writ of execution, send them to the house and they can levy on the car and they can set a date. They can also, in instances of a car, if you pay them extra, tow it that day, which we've done before as well.

232
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:41,240
I mean, it sounds kind of ruthless, but fuck you, pay me.

233
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:56,240
Well, so from an organizational standpoint, we've kind of we've kind of merged a couple of the steps here. So I want to I want to back up and talk specifically about first how it is that one seizes a bank account, because I agree.

234
00:24:56,240 --> 00:25:08,240
Right. The easiest way to collect money, if you actually know where someone does their banking and there's actual assets in there is to seize their bank account. It is fast. It is quick and it works. Tell us about that process.

235
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:23,240
Yeah, I mean, the bank account and you know, some of this is technical. The Pennsylvania rules of civil procedure. I'm not trying to chew away business, but if you Googled Pennsylvania rules of civil procedure and you read about the judgment and you read about the writ of execution,

236
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:39,240
there's another segment also called interrogatories in aid of execution and interrogatories are simply questions. And these questions interrogatories in aid of execution are questions to the bank.

237
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:57,240
And they actually the rules of civil procedure layout. Here are the 11 questions that you can ask a bank. So you don't even have to. It's not being a lawyer. It's simply knowing the procedure following the rules. But the Pennsylvania does a good job of showing you the documents exactly that you need to fill out.

238
00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:05,240
So you're not guessing or having to hire a lawyer. They give you the information and then a key legal term just to flag for our listeners out there is the word garnishy.

239
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:20,240
And again, this is a thing people are mostly used to in a different context, right? They'll talk about garnishing wages, which in some states you can do for civil judgments. In Pennsylvania, you cannot garnish wages with very limited exceptions.

240
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:36,240
But the word garnishment just means basically what you're doing is you're stepping in in between the debtor and someone who owes the debtor money. So when you talk about wage garnishment, what you're doing is stepping into that moment before the employer pays the employee and saying, hold on.

241
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:44,240
I know you owe this person money, but this person owes me money. So now you have to pay me directly. Banks get treated like a garnishy in the same way.

242
00:26:44,240 --> 00:27:00,240
The bank has an account. That money is money that is, properly speaking, owed to the person who owns the bank account. But what you can do is if you have successfully followed these procedures, you can treat the bank as a garnishy and step in and say, hey, bank, you owe this person money.

243
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:02,240
You have to pay me instead because they owe me.

244
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:18,240
Yeah, that's a great point. And you can not only do it with a bank, but you can do it if the defendant is a landlord and has owed money by other people. Well, guess what? You can send interrogatories to garnishies.

245
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:33,240
Or if somebody owes the debtor money, let's say he won a lawsuit against somebody else and somebody else owes him, you can claim those proceeds. So it's not just money he has. It's any money or he or she has or the company has.

246
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:44,240
It's any money that is owed to that debtor from any third party source. You can garnish that money by issuing a writ of execution and sending interrogatories to the garnishy.

247
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:48,240
That's right. But the banks, the banks are the best garnishies.

248
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:50,240
Best banks are the best.

249
00:27:50,240 --> 00:28:08,240
Because you serve these interrogatories directed to a garnishy to the bank and they're just questions, right? You're just sending the bank questions. And as soon as they receive them, if there's an account with more than $300 or whatever the cutoff is right now in it, they freeze the account.

250
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:34,240
The person can't do banking anymore until they resolve this situation. It gets us a lot of calls. It works a lot of deals out where someone comes in and says, well, hold on. My bank account just got frozen. My pay went in there. I can't pay any of my other expenses. What do we have to do to get my bank account open back up? Well, fuck you. Pay me. That's what we have to do to get the bank account open back up.

251
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,240
We seem like real assholes. You know that?

252
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:54,240
Well, the thing is collecting a debt really is, it's a job for maniacs and assholes, right? Those are the things that make you good at this. Is being willing to follow a guy down the street to see where his car is or, you know.

253
00:28:54,240 --> 00:29:15,240
And you don't have to be unreasonable, right? We've let people pay less than the whole amount and open the bank account back up because in the end, you know, we just want to get paid. We're not out to ruin your life. We're just out to make sure that our clients who have a genuine court-adjudicated right and interest have that right and interest protected.

254
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:35,240
And the law has other rules in place to protect the banks. There's minimum exemptions. And, you know, if you're married and it's a joint bank account, I can't freeze it for an individual debt. So, you know, John Smith owes me money. You know, John and Maggie have an account together. I can't touch that account.

255
00:29:35,240 --> 00:30:04,240
Yeah. I mean, it circles back and there are difficulties in collection, which we can touch upon. But, you know, be nice, be nice, be nice until it's time not to be nice and then get the judgment, then issue the writ of execution. You can go after bank accounts, which that's the number one way that I've been paid over the years is seizing bank accounts and people panicking and saying, wait a second, I got $35,000 in there. I only owe your client $7,000. I said, okay, great. You pay us the seven. I'll call the bank today and open it up for you. How's that sound? Right?

256
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:09,240
So just, but you can, I want to stop and acknowledge you gave us some roadhouse there, didn't you?

257
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:14,240
I want you to be nice until it's time to not be nice.

258
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:21,240
Roadhouse. If I did it subconsciously. PM, what do you got for us?

259
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:29,240
You know, if someone owed me money, I would want the lawyer that I hired to be kind of a relentless asshole. That's what I would want.

260
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:39,240
Well, and you know, and I think in Bill and ours, I spill and eyes ours case, Bill helped me there maybe, but no, you are on an island here, my friend.

261
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,240
You're drowning in grammar.

262
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:49,240
I, you know, it's the ultimate paradox that we, yes, I think we're just naturally ultimate assholes, but also very nice guys. So it works both ways.

263
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:56,240
I mean, what a little bit each. My typical answer to why I became a lawyer is I was naturally disposed to be an argumentative jerk.

264
00:30:56,240 --> 00:31:02,240
I just found a career where that's an asset. See, I didn't have the argumentative. I just had the asshole.

265
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:14,240
Damn it. All right. Just in terms of the layout, have we helped people in terms of you got to get the judgment, you can do different things, you can do discovery, you can execute in various ways, you can sell real property.

266
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:19,240
Any other major practice tidbits that you have for people to help them.

267
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:27,240
Well, the main thing is you had mentioned this idea of a personal property sheriff sale, but you still haven't told us like what goes on at that or how that works.

268
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:39,240
Yeah. So, and that's good. And let me try to roll through this kind of quickly. Right. But let's say we get a judgment and we issue a writ of execution and our choices are the bank or real property or personal property.

269
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:50,240
Let's go with personal property. I send a business owes my client $100,000. I issue the writ of execution. Sheriff has the key to go to this site and conduct a levy.

270
00:31:50,240 --> 00:32:02,240
And what they do is they send out several sheriffs and they gain entry. And sometimes they're not allowed entry where the guy says, no, I'm shutting the door. You're not coming in.

271
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:14,240
And in that case, the sheriff is not allowed in at that point. We have to do then a motion to break and enter, which is allowing and we have to post a bond. So if there's damage, the bond covers it.

272
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:31,240
We've had to do that many times. It's not an unusual step of the process. But let's say once the sheriff gains entry, whether it's voluntarily or through a motion to break and enter the sheriff then gets his notepad out and takes a complete inventory of everything at the defendant's location.

273
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:39,240
Two Zenith TVs, one cash register, 54 tables and chairs. Have you been through that process?

274
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:50,240
Yeah, so I have. I remember specifically going along with the sheriff to do a levy at a closed pizza shop.

275
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:57,240
And I mean, we went through there and got the serial numbers of every piece of equipment in that restaurant.

276
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:05,240
I mean, the place had closed down, but there were a ton of assets in there. Now, we weren't sure and ended up a lot of those may have been the property of some other people.

277
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:21,240
We didn't have an absolute right to every piece of equipment in there. But the only way we could figure out what things we could sell and what things we couldn't was to go through and specifically write down and track of exactly what all of the pizza ovens and cash registers and everything in that place was.

278
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:34,240
Yeah. And another practice tip here, you got to be as nice as you can to the sheriff's office because as much as a client needs you, we need the sheriff to be, hey, go do your job.

279
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:47,240
And they do a real good job. But there are sheriffs that are more aggressive and will take be more detailed. And if you have established a relationship with that deputy, usually they want to work for you more. At least that's what I've experienced.

280
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:52,240
Okay, so the sheriff goes in there and levies. What happens after that?

281
00:33:52,240 --> 00:34:06,240
Once they take a levy, they will post that levy sale at the sheriff's office and issue a sheriff sale date. And they'll say we took all the inventory of this restaurant and we're going to set a sheriff sale date 30 days from now.

282
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:23,240
Well, very few people see these very few people are aware of the sheriff sale date like they are when there's a real when there's a real property sale that happens at a scheduled date and time every month and people can see the list of 250 properties.

283
00:34:23,240 --> 00:34:39,240
Yeah, you've you've seen there. I forget what the name of the show was Storage Wars or something. Yeah, where what they were doing was this sort of sheriff sale, but they were doing it at these offsite storage facilities. Someone has a storage box or unit that they stop paying for.

284
00:34:39,240 --> 00:34:57,240
And so, you know, easy self storage or whoever it is has given them notice and got a judgment and now they've got an authorization to go ahead and sell the assets in the in the storage units. Now, I think those they're just selling blind. The sheriff isn't going through and levying what's there.

285
00:34:57,240 --> 00:34:59,240
There's not a levy in those. That's right. Right.

286
00:34:59,240 --> 00:35:15,240
But the point is, you know, there is a sale and in this case the sale occurs at the location where the physical property is this isn't like going to the county courthouse for the sheriff sales of real estate or tax sales of property.

287
00:35:15,240 --> 00:35:30,240
This is on a random date that's published, you know, officially but not well distributed, and the sale occurs physically at the location in question on some random morning or afternoon.

288
00:35:30,240 --> 00:35:46,240
You got your way at 3100. That's Mr. Douchebag to you. Yeah, a couple other things. Once that levy is made, the defendant or the debtor is not allowed to move those assets. If they move those assets because there's going to be a delay between the time the levies made and the sale was done.

289
00:35:46,240 --> 00:36:05,240
They can be arrested. It's a crime. Once the sale set, and you can have bidders show up and bidders can bid on items at the sale that's paid to you until your judgment amount is collected. So, whatever the item sell for that money is placed towards the money that you're owed.

290
00:36:05,240 --> 00:36:16,240
And once you collect the judgment amount the sale stops. Sometimes there's usually not enough assets for that but now all that being said, the way these things.

291
00:36:16,240 --> 00:36:35,240
The way these things actually work. Most of the time, is you go to the sheriff sale. Nobody shows up at the sheriff sale except you. And congratulations you now own all this stuff that was that was in this restaurant or home, and you can sell it to try to make your money back or whatever.

292
00:36:35,240 --> 00:36:53,240
But that is the usual process, you know, sometimes and especially if you're, you know, if you're really liquidating the assets of a business that has a lot of valuable stuff. There's someone else usually someone else who's also owed money who finds out about the sale and they show up and they bid to.

293
00:36:53,240 --> 00:37:06,240
But most, most sheriff sales for personal property, at least that I've been involved with. It's you and the sheriff, and you're the only people who show up.

294
00:37:06,240 --> 00:37:17,240
Yeah, so look, I mean my first advice to clients is always seize the bank account, you got the judgment seize the bank account. My second advice is always go after real property because we know there's going to be hundreds of bidders at the sheriff sale.

295
00:37:17,240 --> 00:37:30,240
The third option of using the sheriff to go sell all of their shit is really just a pressure move. I'm applying pressure, but the sheriff going out there taking a levy putting the fear in them, and then, you know, depending.

296
00:37:30,240 --> 00:37:40,240
Hey look we still want to work this out. I want to be nice I want to get you to voluntarily pay me pay us. So I'm keeping all options open.

297
00:37:40,240 --> 00:37:50,240
You also picked a really interesting example right if I if I go here and you know checkoffs gun is among the assets that is being sold to me here.

298
00:37:50,240 --> 00:37:57,240
There's a ton of interesting stuff out there about with gun ownership laws and registration.

299
00:37:57,240 --> 00:38:12,240
You actually have to go about doing that to protect yourself and I think I remember looking at this at one point that some sort of temporary custody by a lawyer is kind of permitted and backlogged into that just to allow the lawyer to kind of hold it until

300
00:38:12,240 --> 00:38:15,240
actual stuff can be done.

301
00:38:15,240 --> 00:38:26,240
But just to kind of flag that boy there's a whole can of worms there in the example of this old gun that you mentioned that we are not getting into today but maybe some other time.

302
00:38:26,240 --> 00:38:39,240
I do think that your approach makes sense and we'll get to the sheriff sale of real estate that people might be more familiar with momentarily. But think about it in terms of where are the repositories of assets right.

303
00:38:39,240 --> 00:38:52,240
One of which might be real estate that I own. There's a process for sheriff selling that one of which might be bank accounts, one of which might be money that other people other than banks know you those are the garnishes we talked about one of them might be a physical

304
00:38:52,240 --> 00:38:58,240
asset and the other one might be a real estate that you own. So there's a process for that.

305
00:38:58,240 --> 00:39:10,240
And then there's also a process for the sheriff sale of real estate where you can get levies on those or try to get them sold as well and you kind of have to treat them in isolation.

306
00:39:10,240 --> 00:39:25,240
Because they're kind of they're both interesting right one of those a common one is vehicles. Oftentimes vehicles aren't kept on the physical premises so when the sheriff comes to do a levy. If it's a house with a garage or a big piece real estate with

307
00:39:25,240 --> 00:39:40,240
vehicles in the back fenced in right you're just a construction company, those vehicles get wrapped into the standard sheriff's levy of personal property at a location, but oftentimes because vehicles are mobile.

308
00:39:40,240 --> 00:39:45,240
You have to find those and chase those and eventually seize those separately.

309
00:39:45,240 --> 00:39:57,240
You had, you had mentioned, Fred earlier, I was, I was, we were working a case. He was able to get us a tow truck and kind of arrange to repossess a vehicle we found a car.

310
00:39:57,240 --> 00:40:03,240
So we had an address we knew they own a vehicle we found the vehicle records that showed that there was a car there.

311
00:40:03,240 --> 00:40:14,240
They owned it outright one thing to note if someone owes a judgment but they owe payments on their vehicle, right, the, the financing company has priority over you, you don't get to go seize their car and keep it like, you know,

312
00:40:14,240 --> 00:40:18,240
if your bank lent the money for that car. They get it first.

313
00:40:18,240 --> 00:40:35,240
But in any case, you know this was this was in my, my young scrappy and hungry days right and I went with a car into this neighborhood and and drove around and found the car and parked a block away and across the street and was looking at it diagonally and I was on a stakeout,

314
00:40:35,240 --> 00:40:47,240
because, you know, Fred was in West Virginia, I had to wait for the tow truck to get there. And at some point as I'm checking in and he's halfway there to come tow the car, someone comes out gets in the car and drives away.

315
00:40:47,240 --> 00:40:48,240
Now I'm following.

316
00:40:48,240 --> 00:40:56,240
You know, I'm, you know, I'm driving I'm driving. I feel like Kramer you're still made all the stocks while people kept pulling the string.

317
00:40:56,240 --> 00:41:09,240
You know, they just went to the store and came back, but I was trying not to be seen following them. So, you know, they went on this excursion and I was driving a block away and seeing when they stopped turning up and then followed them back.

318
00:41:09,240 --> 00:41:16,240
And we did we towed the car and stored it in a local garage or dealership or whatever I don't remember exactly where we took it.

319
00:41:16,240 --> 00:41:23,240
But I was on this shady evenings stakeout driving following this car around a local neighborhood.

320
00:41:23,240 --> 00:41:33,240
Yeah, it was something else. Good times man. Good times. You know the two things about vehicles that you said though is one, you know, same vehicles and planes, they have a title number.

321
00:41:33,240 --> 00:41:50,240
And that allows you which you can ascertain exact ownership through the Department of State records, and you need to verify whether there's liens, you don't want to go seize and pay to tow a car that's worth $5,000 that has a $6,000 lean on it.

322
00:41:50,240 --> 00:42:04,240
So, you know that all filters back into the discovery once you obtain the judgment and possessing vehicles in particular is a very kind of statutory and administratively complex process you have to follow all the steps right.

323
00:42:04,240 --> 00:42:11,240
Don't go out there, self helping and saying well this guy owes me some money I'm taking his car. Yeah, congratulations. That's Grand Theft Auto.

324
00:42:11,240 --> 00:42:18,240
Yeah. So, let me give the best advice you think it's too early to give the best advice I've ever given in a debt collection matter.

325
00:42:18,240 --> 00:42:24,240
Um, yeah, you can go ahead and give it it works together with the last point.

326
00:42:24,240 --> 00:42:34,240
Okay, so the best advice ever is once you get the judgment and you try discovery and issued rid of it, rid of executions, and you still can't collect. Is there anything else that you can do.

327
00:42:34,240 --> 00:42:54,240
And the answer is yes you need to revive the judgment, every five years, because this is this is the number one thing that people miss, and it is it is. I've seen so many clients get paid years later, simply by reviving the judgment, reviving the judgment in Pennsylvania means once you found your judgment.

328
00:42:54,240 --> 00:43:09,240
That judgment gives you a high priority for five years. But if you revive that judgment which is a separate legal pleading, which is filed, you retain your priority. And just last month bill, we had a judgment from 2004.

329
00:43:09,240 --> 00:43:24,240
So it's 16 years old, we kept reviving it we revived it in 2009 2013 2018 we stayed on it for 16 years, we got $100,000. I mean these clients are thrilled, because we don't go away.

330
00:43:24,240 --> 00:43:26,240
Alive.

331
00:43:26,240 --> 00:43:28,240
It's alive.

332
00:43:28,240 --> 00:43:32,240
It's alive.

333
00:43:32,240 --> 00:43:43,240
And just because someone doesn't have any money now doesn't mean they never will. I had mentioned earlier that generally you can't get it marital property right so one of the reasons you might hit a dead end in your collection process is.

334
00:43:43,240 --> 00:43:58,240
So for example, you can do a sheriff sale to effectuate your lien against real estate. But if a married couple owns the property jointly, and you have a judgment against only one member of that married couple, you can't do that sheriff sale.

335
00:43:58,240 --> 00:44:11,240
You can't get to sell the real property, and, and I know we've talked about it in passing. If you can verify that the person who owes you money owns real estate in their own name that is sufficiently valuable.

336
00:44:11,240 --> 00:44:23,240
That is 100% the best way to go collect it's expensive and you don't want to do it unless you're sure that at the end of the day the property is worth enough and the property is relatively unencumbered.

337
00:44:23,240 --> 00:44:34,240
We'll find out. But okay, let's find out that maybe the property is marital and I can't touch it or maybe there's a big mortgage on it or this person just doesn't have any money and I've got a judgment and I've tried to collect.

338
00:44:34,240 --> 00:44:42,240
And, you know, I, other than trying to do a sheriff sale and steal their dressers and clothes there's nothing else I can do to get paid.

339
00:44:42,240 --> 00:44:48,240
Okay, except revive the judge. Well that's right so you've reached that dead end. That's all right.

340
00:44:48,240 --> 00:45:00,240
If you five years keep reviving that judgment people's life circumstances change, maybe the married person is now divorced. Now their assets are feasible, or maybe one of the married couple passes away.

341
00:45:00,240 --> 00:45:14,240
And now the assets are feasible. Maybe someone hits the lottery or gets a better job, whatever it is. And the nice thing about reviving the judgment, as mentioned a judgment act as a lien against real estate automatically.

342
00:45:14,240 --> 00:45:20,240
And so you have to be able to survive that judgment you revive that lean you keep your priority order.

343
00:45:20,240 --> 00:45:31,240
You have to be paid out based on the time that you end your judgment if there's a second mortgage that comes in after the judgment, you're ahead of that second mortgage company in the priority order.

344
00:45:31,240 --> 00:45:47,240
And what usually gets you paid is seven years or 11 years or whatever after the judgment, someone is trying to sell their property, and you've got to lean against it. And now they need to satisfy that lean to let this sale go through.

345
00:45:47,240 --> 00:45:48,240
And it's a problem.

346
00:45:48,240 --> 00:46:05,240
And I would also throw in there every time you revive the judgment I do new discovery. So I continually have not just three years of tax returns, but we'll have six, seven, 10 years of tax returns on the same individual will truly get to see whether their life circumstances

347
00:46:05,240 --> 00:46:09,240
have changed. All right, let's wrap this up.

348
00:46:09,240 --> 00:46:20,240
Let's talk to people today, I think if your business is owed money if you're owed money, if the goal is getting paid you have to apply pressure, you have to be crafty got to be strategic you got to be persistent.

349
00:46:20,240 --> 00:46:30,240
You let people pay you voluntarily if they can let them fund their own lawsuits against them. But if they can't, then you need to litigate you need to get the judgment.

350
00:46:30,240 --> 00:46:44,240
You need to do discovery, you need to issue rid of executions, and the primary assets that you can go after in Pennsylvania, are their bank accounts first their real property second, which is their houses and land and then their personal assets, third.

351
00:46:44,240 --> 00:47:02,240
Agree. I agree and look the goal here is getting paid right. So, a lot of the art in this in addition to just like being willing to be a jerk, who's willing to go aggressively after people that's not always the right play right there's a lot of judgment and

352
00:47:02,240 --> 00:47:19,240
variance and and kind of subtlety involved in knowing when it's time to be nice right there in the roadhouse line from earlier, knowing when it's time to be nice and when it's time not to be nice, because there's a time for both you know it is not one size fits all.

353
00:47:19,240 --> 00:47:29,240
You should not go aggressively full bore after every debtor everywhere. You don't want to force them into bankruptcy if that's not going to get you paid right.

354
00:47:29,240 --> 00:47:34,240
There's a lot of subtlety involved in the right way to do that but you need to have that gear.

355
00:47:34,240 --> 00:47:40,240
Sometimes it is time to just say hey, you know life circumstances are tough. You pay me.

356
00:47:40,240 --> 00:47:42,240
You pay me.

357
00:47:42,240 --> 00:47:47,240
All right, that should do it for this episode of I strenuously object, I think you've had enough.

358
00:47:47,240 --> 00:47:49,240
Mike anything to add from your end.

359
00:47:49,240 --> 00:47:57,240
Thanks Bill. Hi, Mike the podcast producer here. And in fact, yes, I have a correction to our previous show.

360
00:47:57,240 --> 00:48:04,240
So, okay, as I hope you guys know, so as I, as I hope you guys know I take my job very seriously.

361
00:48:04,240 --> 00:48:18,240
After we record these things, I edit them and thoroughly check them for errors before we post them. But it looks like Noah you made a small factual error on a recent podcast and it went undetected, it slipped through.

362
00:48:18,240 --> 00:48:23,240
I'm sorry, I take full responsibility. And I'd like to correct it now.

363
00:48:23,240 --> 00:48:26,240
My initial reaction is F you.

364
00:48:26,240 --> 00:48:35,240
I have a disclaimer for a reason right this is not legal advice. You should not rely on it. So hopefully no one relied on whatever it is you did wrong.

365
00:48:35,240 --> 00:48:40,240
It's not a legal error. It was an error in a film reference you made.

366
00:48:40,240 --> 00:48:42,240
That's unsurprising.

367
00:48:42,240 --> 00:49:04,240
First case or no case which is posted in our podcast library you can go find it there. You quote field of dreams and said, it's baseball Roy. The actual quote by Darth Vader himself, James L. Jones is the one constant through all the years Ray is baseball.

368
00:49:04,240 --> 00:49:09,240
Not Roy. There's no way. Yeah, I enjoy hearing that right now.

369
00:49:09,240 --> 00:49:13,240
The one constant through all the years Ray has been baseball.

370
00:49:13,240 --> 00:49:16,240
It is baseball Ray. It is baseball.

371
00:49:16,240 --> 00:49:26,240
And that's a wrap for this episode of I strenuously object. Hopefully you learned something or had a few laughs or got some value of some kind from our time together.

372
00:49:26,240 --> 00:49:31,240
Look if so please subscribe rate review us tell your friends about our podcast or your enemies.

373
00:49:31,240 --> 00:49:40,240
It's the only way this thing can grow. If you have any questions for our mailing it in mailbag segment or other feedback for the podcast.

374
00:49:40,240 --> 00:49:46,240
Email the podcast directly that address is I object at pgh firm.com.

375
00:49:46,240 --> 00:49:57,240
Hey thanks Bill. The only thing I'll add is if you want to show me the money. Check out pgh firm.com and look for the article, the five best steps on how to collect debt in Pennsylvania.

376
00:49:57,240 --> 00:50:01,240
Until next time some parting advice.

377
00:50:01,240 --> 00:50:06,240
No, are we adjourned?

378
00:50:06,240 --> 00:50:16,240
We are adjourned. Have a great day.

379
00:50:16,240 --> 00:50:19,240
We want to hear from you our listeners.

380
00:50:19,240 --> 00:50:26,240
You can email us your questions comments and suggestions for future episodes at I object at pgh firm.com.

381
00:50:26,240 --> 00:50:29,240
Or DM us on Instagram and Facebook.

382
00:50:29,240 --> 00:50:58,240
Follow us at Flaherty Fardo on Instagram or Flaherty Fardo Rogel and Amick on Facebook.

‍